"I'm not a saint," Sara Quin tells Spinner,
but this half of Tegan and Sara is immensely interested in what
that concept means, thanks to a fellow Canadian, Leonard Cohen.
The twin sister duo releases its sixth album,
'Sainthood,' on Oct. 27. Again produced by Death Cab for
Cutie's Chris Walla, the record takes its title from
Cohen's 'Came So Far for Beauty.'
Inspired by the poet laureate of her native land, Quin delves
deeply into what it means to "practice sainthood" on
the new album. What does it mean to be a saint? Spinner asked
Quin and happily got a lot more than we bargained for as Quin
opened up about relationships, her admiration for Beth Ditto and
Ani DiFranco, the ways in which she and her sister deal with
homophobia as lesbians, and how Tegan and Sara's whole career
has emulated Neil Young's after they toured with him at age
19.
What does practicing sainthood mean to you?
The line came from a Leonard Cohen song, actually: "I
practiced all my sainthood." And I loved this idea that this
behavior of being devout to someone was something you had to
practice. And also I loved that it's something you can do to
win somebody's affection or forgiveness or whatever. It was
really influential and it articulated something, at least for me,
in my life that was happening and in turn writing songs
about.
You can't really go wrong with being inspired by Leonard
Cohen.
He truly is an incredible lyricist. The song that line comes
from, 'Came So Far for Beauty,' every lyric resonated so
much with me. And there are these moments where you hit on
something like that where you just think, "I'm never
going to write something as beautiful and so simple, yet that
just resonates." It's something to aim for, to be so
incredibly poetic and beautiful.
Sainthood is typically seen as this global, Mother Theresa,
Gandhi thing. And what you're talking about, though, seems to
be on the personal level.
Oh, absolutely. This isn't about thinking you're a saint;
it's the behavior of someone who is, I guess, delusional,
that you would change everything about yourself in order to win
the affections or forgiveness of someone who you were devoted to.
You know it doesn't make sense or it's not reciprocated
or whatever. Or forget love or romance. It's so easy to be
bad or to be dishonest. I think it's so much more work to be
saintly, to be good.
Is that something you've personally had to strive
for?
When I started really thinking about sainthood and this idea of
practicing sainthood, it absolutely resonated with my life. I
think we're attracted to what's bad and what's dark
and mysterious. And some of the people who are sort of saintly
and trustworthy become less attractive somehow [laughs].
Are there other people who are good that have inspired
you?
I am forever admiring people who are outspoken. You know what
you're getting and they're not hiding behind a view that
they think is exciting or cool or because other people think
it's exciting and cool. Personally, I'm always amazed at
people in the music industry who are doing that. Like I love Beth
Ditto —I totally appreciate someone who can just be outspoken
like that, or Antony from Antony and the Johnsons. A lot of these
people are obviously queer and talking about queer politics and
that sort of thing. Whether those people are saints or not I
doubt it; I'm not a saint, but you [can] become a role model,
a person of substance who has value that people can look up
to.
Are these themes that heavily influence the new
record?
The songs themselves are primarily love songs. They're not
political bombs in an overt kind of way. [But ] I find there is
still so much homophobia. I feel like it's one of the things
that is still publicly accepted or tolerated, and it's a
struggle. I don't want to have to talk about it all the time
and I don't want it to have to be the platform of our band.
But as a person, it makes me crazy. And I feel like it's so
important to be public about our views and the injustices that we
see and the homophobia that we deal with but also that so many
other people are dealing with.
I find it in myself sometimes, when I meet parents who are like,
"Oh, you've been such an incredible role model for my
kid." And I can't help it; there's almost this
nagging in me sometimes where I'm like, "But I'm
bad, I'm living this alternative lifestyle. How could this
parent want to entrust their child's development to me or
their politics or their thought process to me?" Even I have
that reaction sometimes where I think, "Oh, God, maybe
I'm not the best person to be influencing teenagers."
And then I'm like, "F--- that, I'm an awesome role
model for teenagers."
There was the famous Charles Barkley Nike campaign: "I am
not a role model." That approach worked because so many
public figures go through that doubt. Is that what you're
talking about?
I think so, and then that is all just sort of institutionalized
homophobia, sexism, whatever, we can't avoid. Just because
I'm a woman and I'm gay doesn't mean that I'm
impenetrable to these ideas. And I think I realized really early
on that I am a role model and I have absolutely no problem being
a role model. I live my life in a way that I feel completely
comfortable with. I do not struggle with who I am, who I date,
who I love, what I say or what I stand for, not just sexuality
but everything. I am OK with people knowing who I am and what I
do and know that I conduct myself in both a personal and
professional way. And that's not to say that everyone has to
do that. I admire people who want complete privacy and don't
want people looking into their lives or don't want to be a
role model. I get it. But Tegan and I are totally comfortable
with the fact that a lot of our audience is looking to us as role
models, an alternative to what the mainstream is. People like
Kathleen Hanna and Ani DiFranco that represented something
alternative or different was so impactful to me. It gave me such
strength and to know that we might be like that on a certain
level to certain people, I have no reservations about that.
But you also say you have those moments of doubt.
I do have those moments, just like one day I can feel like I can
strut into the president of a record label's office and tell
him what I think, and then I have other days where I go to my
corner store to buy a beer, I have to show ID, I'm dressed
like I'm 16 and I'm like, "God, this guy would never
believe that I own a business and have employees and have made
six albums and have traveled the world." I think it's
really normal to sort of question how you're being perceived
by other people, but art is like that. We're judged not just
on our personalities, but we'll forever be judged on what we
recorded. We just spent two months making an album and that will
go into the public record as our artistic output, and it's
terrifying 'cause at least as a human being you can change
and you're constantly correcting and updating who you are.
It's like your computer being refreshed constantly, whereas
with music that's in stone. Maybe that's why we
overcompensate so much and want our audience to have such
constant, direct up to date with us because we are constantly
changing, whereas our albums are so static.
Who are some of the bands you really admire as live
musicians?
I definitely feel like Neil Young was obviously really
incredible. That was our first US tour, touring with Neil Young,
and I had no other experience besides playing in bars and
people's basements or whatever. So it was at once exciting
and incredible and a learning experience no like other, but it
was almost so overwhelming and there was no perspective because
we had nothing to compare it to. It was just like,
"We're on tour and it's with Neil Young and everyday
was kind of like, 'Do not f--- up. Do not light anything on
fire or wreck anything or piss anyone off.'" It was so
nerve-wracking and impressive. Everything we have done since has
been about building an infrastructure that mimics or mirrors what
that man has done as an artist, as a person, building an
infrastructure of people who tour with you, who respect you and
who you respect. Everything about that operation it was just
mind-blowing. So that was definitely a highlight. I loved touring
with Ryan Adams. I thought he was one of the most genuine,
authentic people, and his show changed every night, and he could
just be crazy or sit down at the piano and have 3,000 people be
absolutely silent. We have toured with so many amazing people:
Rufus Wainwright, the Killers; little bands that support us that
blow our minds all the time. We've been really lucky.